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Downsizer Forum Index -> Shooting and Trapping for the Pot

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Brownbear

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 08 10:14 am Post subject:

vegplot wrote:

Do you think we'll get our thread back?

Doubt it. If so, they'd have just deleted everything since the enquiry from the New Zealand sadist.

Silas

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 08 11:02 am Post subject:

Brownbear wrote:

vegplot wrote:

Do you think we'll get our thread back?

Doubt it. If so, they'd have just deleted everything since the enquiry from the New Zealand sadist.

Errr... had your PM yet?

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 08 11:05 am Post subject:

Silas wrote:

Brownbear wrote:

vegplot wrote:

Do you think we'll get our thread back?

Doubt it. If so, they'd have just deleted everything since the enquiry from the New Zealand sadist.

Errr... had your PM yet?

Did you get detention?

SheepShed

Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 332
Location: In the middle of a Welsh forest

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 08 11:24 am Post subject:
So did the Kiwi return then ?

crofter

Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2252

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 08 12:42 pm Post subject:

Brownbear wrote:

It's probably my fault for failing to respect diversity ('the Hare Coursing Community') again.

If I remember correctly, you stated earlier in the thread that you do not have a problem with people hunting with dogs for food, they just become sadists when dogs are used to hunt for sport. Do you consider the breeding of large numbers of ducks and pheasants specifically for the purpose of being shot (and people who shoot for sport rather than food) as sadistic also?

Silas

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 08 12:43 pm Post subject:

crofter wrote:

Brownbear wrote:

It's probably my fault for failing to respect diversity ('the Hare Coursing Community') again.

Eyup- I think we all know where this one's going....

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 08 1:06 pm Post subject:
Moral maze.

Brownbear

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 08 1:07 pm Post subject:

crofter wrote:

Brownbear wrote:

It's probably my fault for failing to respect diversity ('the Hare Coursing Community') again.

A good and interesting question. Firstly, as far as duck are concerned, I had no idea any one bred them for release as a quarry species. If that is the case, then what I say about pheasant applies to released duck also.

For pheasant shooting, I don't think the majority of people take part for the pleasure of killing (it would be a lot cheaper and easier just to buy a dozen guinea pigs, take them home and hit them all with hammers, or set the dog on them), though I have heard of cases (on shoots where wealthy idiots demand high bags on shoots in order to impress their guests, or to satisfy some obscure willy-waggling desire to 'bag' more than other shoots) where an excess of birds have been shot and their remains buried in a pit. I've never seen it or seen actual 'evidence' of it, but I have heard it reported anecdotally and do not consider it impossible.

In this case - where the birds are shot and then wasted, it is certainly pointless, and therefore immoral. The method of killing - shotgun fire - is a more humane one than being torn asunder by hounds, so I would not go so far as to call it sadistic. I would however say, wherever it has happened or might in the future happen, that it is absolutely disgraceful behaviour, and all involved should hang their heads in shame (or as they would have no shame, in abject apology for the foul name they give all responsible Guns), and should sell their guns and take up airsofting.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 08 1:14 pm Post subject:
There's a wide gulf between enjoying shooting as a sport (with the bonus of having something for the pot) and apposed to simply killing for enjoyment. Bystanders can confuse the two.

Brownbear

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 08 1:17 pm Post subject:
On th topic of releasing birds into the wild with the intention of later shooting them for food, I would point out that it is a sweeter life and less stressful death than farmed meat animals get, however well they may be cared for.

crofter

Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2252

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 08 1:36 pm Post subject:

Personally, I enjoy shooting. I do not enjoy shooting because it involves killing things, but I do enjoy eating whatever I might shoot. This morning for an hour or so before dawn I was lying in a swamp waiting for a chance to shoot a goose, but they decided to visit somebody else's fields today. I would have preferred to have one hanging up as I type this, but it was a good way to start the day regardless. Thanks to Brownbear for a considered reply, I thought there might be an inconsistency in your argument, but I see there is not!

Brownbear wrote:

On th topic of releasing birds into the wild with the intention of later shooting them for food, I would point out that it is a sweeter life and less stressful death than farmed meat animals get, however well they may be cared for.

I am not going to argue with this point, although I do not entirely agree... (battery cages?!)

gil
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18409

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 08 1:57 pm Post subject:

crofter wrote:

Brownbear wrote:

I am not going to argue with this point, although I do not entirely agree... (battery cages?!)

Does this depend on where the birds are being raised and who by ?
For small shoots round here, the people who organise them rear pheasants from chicks in large runs in the woods with huts in. When the birds are older, they are let in and out of these pens morning and evening like domestic poultry, and allowed to free-range (hopefully tempted back at night by feeding time). Then they are released as the shooting season gets closer.

Is there some kind of pheasant 'battery farming' goes on, then ?

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 08 2:13 pm Post subject:
I would guess that were profit is the prime motive then this would occur, as opposed to an ethical business.

crofter

Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2252

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 08 5:18 pm Post subject:
Is there a legal framework under which game birds are reared? I don't know much about it, but would agree that SOME game birds have a better life and death than SOME farmed animals. Which is meaningless. What about birds which are shot and winged? How humane is their death?

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 08 5:23 pm Post subject:

crofter wrote:

What about birds which are shot and winged? How humane is their death?

Funny you should say that, just the other night there was someone on one of those TV vet programmes that had a winged goose in. They said it was quite common and her views of bird shooting was similar to other people's views on coursing.

Back to reared game birds, round here they did import many from France and, IIRC, some are reared in less than what I would say are ideal conditions. You often see crates of the young poults being driven about, released and then shot by people who certainly don't shoot for the pot.

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