Salmon: farmed or wild?

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Salmon: farmed or wild?
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tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45420
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 09 8:16 pm Post subject:

pricey wrote:

To me this is just as bad as battery hens or penned Pigs!

Yup

chez

Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35934
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 09 8:17 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

GM could...

... The worms! The can! They won't go back in!

It would be a good solution, though. So long as it worked 100% of the time and you didn't get the odd one that wasn't infertile getting out in to the wild population, spawning and then, for example, the next generation all being mules. (Is that the right term?).

mihto

Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 3273
Location: West coast of Norway

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 09 8:21 pm Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

I wonder of farmed salmon could be made infertile?

They are discussing it and there is certainly research on the topic.

Worse, though, and a problem seldom mentioned: all the farmed fish need to eat. They need protein and fish fat, and until now they have been given marine protein. Fish species not used for human consumption is fished on industrial scale, emptying our rich fields of the very gold that sustains species like cod and haddoc. The commercial fishing for these "non-edible" species is now depleting the North Sea to the extent that see birds suffer badly as well. Many bird species are down to less than 1/10 of their previous numbers. Cod is very hard to find. The demand for cod is great, so this species is now farmed in increasing numbers. Now the farmed cod need to eat as well..

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45420
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 09 8:22 pm Post subject:
mihto this is something I've always been hugely concerned about, I'm not an elitist in any way but salmon was and should still be a luxury, not a flipping commodity.

pricey

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 6444

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 09 8:24 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

mihto this is something I've always been hugely concerned about, I'm not an elitist in any way but salmon was and should still be a luxury, not a flipping commodity.

What he said.

chez

Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35934
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 09 8:25 pm Post subject:

mihto wrote:

Worse, though, and a problem seldom mentioned: all the farmed fish need to eat ...

I hadn't even heard of that, it hadn't even occurred to me. Thank you for bringing it up, Mihto.

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 09 8:26 pm Post subject:

mihto wrote:

I completely agree, the inputs and outputs surely do not add up. there are huge parallels between this and factoring farming of chickens. the drive to make it available to everyone has turned it into a pasty shadow of the original.

I don't know much about cod farming, but isn't that easier as cod are generally lazy trash eaters?

mihto

Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 3273
Location: West coast of Norway

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 09 8:37 pm Post subject:

They are doing some very interesting research on feeding of farmed cod. The idea is to use vegetarian food, if it is at all possible. It flies into the face of common sense to empty the oceans of other species in order to feed cod.

At the center of the farmed fish problem is the huge profit made. Even at low shop prices in Europe the salmon is so cheap to farm that the owners make millions. Eventually the cycle will break: as the oceans are emptied of "non-edible" species, the cost of feed will skyrocket and the industry will flop. By then much damage has been done to other fish species, to birdlife, to sea mammals like seals and whales. We all use the ocean to sustain our lives, even to survive. By destroying our most valuable commodity because of greed, we may be facing a major ecological disaster.

mihto

Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 3273
Location: West coast of Norway

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 09 9:04 pm Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

In many ways farming fish is worse than farming chicken. In chicken you have food meant for human consumption which is acceptable, but only just so. Growing chicken feed may use fields that could be better utilised, but they are hardly an environmental disaster.

Fish farming, however, produces food for people that is quite tasty as well as cheap. The price that people do not see is the emptying of our oceans. I enjoy eating salmon as much as anybody, whilst being sadly aware of the enormous side effects on our oceans. As the North Sea is emptied, our huge factory vessels go fishing all over the world and prevent developing countries from useing their own fish resources. Eventually these people will pay the ultimate price for the rich nations taste for salmon.

Bebo

Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 12590
Location: East Sussex

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 09 11:33 pm Post subject:

If you want farmed fish, have trout. They can be 'farmed' in an artificial enclosed freshwater system without affecting anything else and if stocking densities are low they live a happy enough life.

Otherwise if you want fresh fish be more adventurous and have, in the right season, mackerel, coley, red mullet or any of the other plentiufl fish that are caught and chucked away because there is no demand for them.

mihto

Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 3273
Location: West coast of Norway

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 09 12:01 am Post subject:

Bebo wrote:

Bebo, I still have about 40 meals of brown trout left in the freezer and the new season starts in April/May

Very hard to stop fishing once they bite properly and on a good day I can bring home 10-15 nice fish. Mackerel is plentiful. We do not have boats coming in with their catch where I live, however, and the other species are out of my reach unless I fish for them myself. Our farmed trout are all imported rainbows and they are just as bad as the salmon when it comes to using food resourses, I'm afraid.

Bebo

Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 12590
Location: East Sussex

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 09 12:05 am Post subject:
I think my post was probably more applicable to the UK, mihto, where a lot of people think fish means battered cod from the fish and chip shop or salmon steaks from the supermarket. For an island nation we aren't very adventurous when if comes to trying different types of fish. And I include myself in that generalisation - I'm a much more confident cook with meat than I am with fish.

Stewy

Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1453
Location: Berkshire

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 09 1:20 pm Post subject:
Finding a decent fishmonger would help, was in Waitrose the other day and the choice was rubbish, they hardly had anything. If you are in Oxford go to the covered market, found a lovely fishmongers in there a few weeks ago, bought a bagful of big, fresh sardines and they only cost a couple of quid............

Iggle Piggle

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Edinburgh

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 09 6:42 pm Post subject:
Think this says it all....enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTYhQAN9BW0

mihto

Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 3273
Location: West coast of Norway

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 09 6:56 pm Post subject:

Iggle Piggle wrote:

Think this says it all....enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTYhQAN9BW0

Thank you for posting the link. It shows the problem in its full magnitude. As a professional I totally agree with the conclusions. On our coast we have ever-growing problems with resistance to Slice, which is the main drug against lice.

This industy is bound to crash, the problem is to what extent wild salmon, as well as "food" species, are ruined before the crash happens. The farmed salmon is one of the largest ecological time bombs in the world today.

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