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Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 08 12:22 am Post subject:
You don't want to encourage water downhill anyway, terribly destructive to soil & fertility.

RichardW

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 08 9:40 am Post subject:

LynneA wrote:

Want some of my JA's?

In Fat of the Land, John Seymour wrote about planting a section of field with Jerusalem Artichokes, then running the pigs in there the following winter.

I suggested this to Justme once, but I don't think he reached the stage of letting the pigs loose on the JA patch. Maybe the two of you could have a go.

Maybe bring them indoors after, harvest the methane and see how much power you can get out of them as well

Still want to do that but my first years planting failed to produce more than a hand full of tubers. Just about to dig the second years & see what they have produced.

I want to keep a production bed running to keep a supply of tubers to plant to produce a grazing crop for the pigs.

Justme

Green Man

Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5272
Location: Rural Scotland.

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 08 9:52 am Post subject:

Nick wrote:

This bit of land has had pigs on it every year, for 7/9 months at a time, for 4 years. When left, it stays sterile. And now they've been on it for a year, and with the heavy rain, it's very dead. It needs some seed, else it'll regrow thistles in the next 18 months. I don't want a harvest, I'll put the pigs back on it. Maybe they'll get a harvest, but not me.

Sounds a very intensive and environmentally damaging way to farm. If you were a farmer receiving CAP payments you would have them docked or stopped for over stocking and poaching the soil. Naughty naughty farmer. Why do we never see pictures of naked pigs up to their 'pits' in slushy mud on web pages?

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 08 10:59 am Post subject:

Cho-ku-ri wrote:

Why do we never see pictures of naked pigs up to their 'pits' in slushy mud on web pages?

Cos we don't look, perhaps?

https://www.oldspots.org.uk/gallery/oink.jpg

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 08 11:06 am Post subject:

Cho-ku-ri wrote:

4 pigs on quarter of an acre. Very, very intensive. Bad old me.

Green Man

Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5272
Location: Rural Scotland.

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 08 11:40 am Post subject:

Quote from you "When left, it stays sterile." Isn't this a clue?
4 pigs per quarter acre equates to an avarage sized farm stocking aprox 5600 pigs. Just because something is small scale does not mean that it isn't intensive. As mentioned here before many keen veg growers grow more intensivly on their plots than any commercial farmer.

Last edited by Green Man on Mon Jan 14, 08 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total

Green Man

Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5272
Location: Rural Scotland.

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 08 11:42 am Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

https://www.oldspots.org.uk/gallery/oink.jpg

Ah summer wallowing isn't the same at zero degrees and a touch of frost on wet, bare skin. Nature would have the bores deep in a forest standing on weight supporting rooty ground.

Last edited by Green Man on Mon Jan 14, 08 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 08 11:45 am Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

You don't want to encourage water downhill anyway, terribly destructive to soil & fertility.

Clearly, I'm a townie not a farmer, because I rather thought that standing water + stock had already resulted in, er, um, a soil of low fertility and appalling structure, that Nick was hoping to improve somehow...

Nick wrote:

.... experience suggests I get a green slime growing first, then nothing except thistles, which the pigs don't like. ...

And my simplistic view was that doing something, anything, about the drainage (or at least the standing water), looked like the very first stage!

Sure, a more elaborate solution, distributing the runoff right across the slope would be even better, but to *restore* fertility and soil structure to the top field, removing the standing water, somehow, has to be an early part of whatever solution, doesn't it?

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 08 11:47 am Post subject:
The standing water is puddles, due to it raining since Noah vanished, or so it seems. As for it remaining sterile, I mean they've removed all the grass roots, and such that was there before. Either way, the pigs are off today to new pasture, and I'll seed the ground with the GM soon as the rain dries up and the company will take my order.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 08 11:52 am Post subject:
He's right about drainage, but if you were to put a pipe in it would have to be at subsoil level to avoid washing the P & K that the pigs have deposited or even the topsoil itself in heavy rain. I'm at a bit of an advantage though, as I've seen the site too.

mochyn

Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24585
Location: mid-Wales

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 08 11:53 am Post subject:
When the 2 boars go off for slaughter I'll be moving the girls up to the woodland. That will leave their (similarly muddy) field empty. I was wondering what to sow in it! Looks like the problem could be solved. Cheers!

Green Man

Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5272
Location: Rural Scotland.

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 08 2:28 pm Post subject:

Nick wrote:

4 pigs on quarter of an acre. Very, very intensive. Bad old me.

Bad news. According to this Soil Association Standard at your stocking level that equates to almost 40 pigs per Hectare you couldn't describe your pigs as organic, 9pigs, or Freedom foods, 25-30 pigs or even Red Tractor at 30 pigs. Do you market your pigs as being intensively produced?

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 08 2:33 pm Post subject:
Nope. And currently, they're running about in 3 acres, between 5 of them.

Green Man

Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5272
Location: Rural Scotland.

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 08 2:37 pm Post subject:
That's better.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 08 2:38 pm Post subject:
It's NOT, the buggers should stay put, and not be out trashing the field!

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