i can think of several places where they would be good river management,increase biodiversity and if they become too numerous to "emigrate"to new places that need them they do make a nice stew and a hat
the ea spend millions of flood management ,these critters work for twigs
In the New Forest they have been working for some years to slow down the streams and allow snags, pools and the mires to redevelop, so in some ways, beavers there might also be a good idea. Not sure what the fish stocks are like in the Forest though.
I can see there could be problems if there were young plantations near the river, and that they will have an effect of the fish stocks and possibly fish migration, although I would have thought fish could get over or through the dams.
With proper management I don't see why it shouldn't work.
robkb
Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 4205 Location: SE London
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 15 8:36 am Post subject:
I like the arrogance of them being 'permitted' to stay
If I lived in Ottery St Mary, I'd already be thinking about doing guided beaver tours. The presence of beavers could be a boon to the tourist sector, if its managed sympathetically of course.
sean Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 42223 Location: North Devon
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 15 11:39 am Post subject:
They could change its name to Beavery St Mary.
Treacodactyl Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 25795 Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
I like the arrogance of them being 'permitted' to stay
Why do you say that?
There's a system in place if you wish to release animals and for good reason. No one knows where they come and the tape worm they can carry can cause death in various animals such as humans and dogs. They could also carry other diseases such as rabies.
I gather they don't even know yet if they are Eurasian beavers so it's not even confirmed if this is a reintroduction or the introduction of a new species.
They do cause a large amount of damage so if they spread small scale land users particularly will have to either put up with a large loss of trees or fence. Fencing is not ideal as it is not only costly but isn't great for other wildlife and can even lead to deaths.
At the beavers don't seem to be a problem (assuming they're disease free) as they are on a large, traditional estate (the sort many seem to want broken up).
Hopefully common sense will carry on prevailing and sensible action will be taken if they cause too much damage in future. There will also need to be action to ensure a healthy population as currently they are just going to inbreed.
robkb
Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 4205 Location: SE London
Good post Treacodactyl. I agree that if the beavers are found to be Eurasian and disease and parasite free they may be an asset, but only if they are kept under control in numbers and monitored to make sure they are keeping healthy.
Introduced species, like grey squirrels for instance, can completely destroy native species like the red squirrel by competing for food, carrying disease, and even sometimes attacking the native species. I got a petition from someone who objected to the Forestry Commission offering grants for grey squirrel control. Sadly there was no way I could let the person posting it know they are perhaps a little misguided. I rather suspect that if a branch fell on them because it had been damaged by a squirrel, they would be demanding the land owner 'did something about it'. I have seen the whole top of a tree dead because of ring barking by squirrels for instance.
for example it isnt that long ago what is now the uk had "native polar bears"eating the seals we still have and apart from arctic char in a few lakes most of the non salty fish we have now would not be "native" pre recent melt.
our "native" lions and hippos dont seem to be thriving although they were doing fine when the mud under traffy square was deposited.
any environment that suits a critter is it's natural habitat if it arrives there .
the non native ukippy stuff applies even less to critters than it does to people
ps the seals had to adapt a bit to the "heatwave"
the arucaria forests are gone as are most of the more recent ones based on pine or broadleaf
the forign rhinos and pandas are redundant in evolutionary terms as their habitats are gone but rats and pigeons have plenty of scope to thrive and adapt in the urban landscapes
my point is there is no such thing as a good or native species ,there are effective species for any environment (some are good at geoengineering to human advantage as a bonus)
ideas such as rats on an island are "bad"and the incumbent birds are "good"misses the point , there has been and will be a succession of life forms that exist or at times become dominant in environments which change for a variety of reasons .
ps bio diversity on a local or global stage comes from an odd combination of stability ,stress ,mobility and isolation.
for example it isnt that long ago what is now the uk had "native polar bears"eating the seals we still have and apart from arctic char in a few lakes most of the non salty fish we have now would not be "native" pre recent melt.
our "native" lions and hippos dont seem to be thriving although they were doing fine when the mud under traffy square was deposited.
any environment that suits a critter is it's natural habitat if it arrives there .
the non native ukippy stuff applies even less to critters than it does to people
ps the seals had to adapt a bit to the "heatwave"
the arucaria forests are gone as are most of the more recent ones based on pine or broadleaf
the forign rhinos and pandas are redundant in evolutionary terms as their habitats are gone but rats and pigeons have plenty of scope to thrive and adapt in the urban landscapes
my point is there is no such thing as a good or native species ,there are effective species for any environment (some are good at geoengineering to human advantage as a bonus)
ideas such as rats on an island are "bad"and the incumbent birds are "good"misses the point , there has been and will be a succession of life forms that exist or at times become dominant in environments which change for a variety of reasons .
ps bio diversity on a local or global stage comes from an odd combination of stability ,stress ,mobility and isolation.
Sorry Dpack but I can't agree. If you allow dominant alien species without the predators that exist in their native environment, you end up with a complete lack of biodiversity. Think of the effect mink have on everything they come across. Would you like a country dominated by mink and rats? I certainly wouldn't.
Yes, the climate has changed dramatically over geological time in what is now the UK, so dinosaurs, elephants, polar bears, who cannot co-exist anyway are extinct here. Some things like panda, which are vegetarian bears, are something of an evolutionary enigma. Whether they are a 'trying it to see if it works' or a 'path to be followed' in evolutionary terms is anyones guess as our understanding is incomplete and timescales of study too short.
gregotyn
Joined: 24 Jun 2010 Posts: 2201 Location: Llanfyllin area
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 15 3:54 pm Post subject:
Not wanting to argue with anyone, just to ask is the badger a native species?
I come from the school of thought that the best badgers are dead badgers. When I found a cub out of its sett I contacted the badger rescue in Ruthin; the cub did not ask to be born, but they the rescue people said it was too far to come, and the Shropshire gang, who I first contacted, wouldn't come as it was not on their patch. The Ruthin lot did ring up 4 days after I rang to ask how it was, but I explained that all animals, badgers included, don't live long without food!
Rather sad Nick. I agree with Dpack that they are native.
Has anything further been done about the beavers in Devon? I see from the article that permission has been obtained for them to stay subject to tests, but do these need to wait until spring? I know that beavers tend to retreat mainly to their lodges in the winter, but don't know if they stay there all the time in the UK.
Nick
Joined: 02 Nov 2004 Posts: 34535 Location: Hereford
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